What a req really does. - Guild Wars Forums

Phaern Majes · Dec 07, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Now I know that many players probably already understand this, but there are alot that do not. Let me explain by first showing you this item.

Now before you say oh this item is crap, 'cause the req. contradicts the Death bonus, let me explain. The req., get this, only applies to the stat line that it is placed next to. In this case the damage, just as the 8% chance only applies to the skill recharge. All this means is that if a Death Necro were to use this item (s)he would get every bonus on here at full strength. The only thing (s)he could not do was attack for max damage because (s)he doesn't meet the req. for that stat line.

Another example:

In this one if an Earth elementalist wanted to use the item without putting points into fire, (s)he would still get the full 16% chance. (S)He would also get the full 38 health when hexed. However, they would not get the full energy bonus, only part of it. This is because the req. only effects the stat line it is placed next to not the whole item. EDIT: No matter how close you are to the req. you still will only get a small portion of the full amount. (Thanks Savio for correcting me)

In all honesty, how many Necros/Mesmers/Elementalists/Monks are really going to try and kill level 24's just by shooting them with your staff? That is why reqs. on staves aren't that important because staves aren't meant for damage just bonuses.

EDIT: This is why trappers can use staffs for the extra 10 energy, and other mod bonuses dispite not having met the requirement.

Dogman · Dec 07, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

For the focus item, any respectable Ele would just use a Earth scroll instead. We all know you don't need illusion to get the death magic bonus, or the other bonuses, but the item is very specialized. Only Me/N's focusing in Illusion and Death magic can use the staff to it's full effectiveness. The point isn't the requirements, the point is the item is gimped to everyone but a Me/N.

Granted yes, casters won't wand a enemy to kill it, but they NEED the full energy bonus, which they do not get if they do not have the requirements.

Maxiemonster · Dec 07, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogman

We all know you don't need illusion to get the death magic bonus, or the other bonuses, but the item is very specialized.

Believe me, most people don't know. Nice to tell this, this spares me telling at least 20 more people personally

Savio · Dec 07, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

The closer you are to that req. the more of that bonus/damage you will get/do.

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, it goes all the way down to starter weapon/focus stats. For that focus, even if you were at 10 Fire Magic, you'd still only get +3 energy instead of the full +12. For weapons, I don't remember the exact starter item stats but they suck.

Rico Carridan · Dec 07, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, it goes all the way down to starter weapon/focus stats. For that focus, even if you were at 10 Fire Magic, you'd still only get +3 energy instead of the full +12. For weapons, I don't remember the exact starter item stats but they suck.

I think it is about 3-5 damage, maybe 2-4 for wands.

Rico

Markaedw · Dec 07, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

The enrgy benifit depends entirely on where the skill requirement is.

The staff has the skill req. on the damage, therefore the energy is bonus willl be benifitted regartgless of skill

The focus item skill req. is on the energy benifit, so you will only receive the benifit as you add to your skills, you will get some of the benifits and as you add to your fire skill level you will get more, untill you reach the max.

Caros · Dec 07, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Exactly, this is why trappers use staves.

Phaern Majes · Dec 07, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

aight thanks I'll fix that one part, but as I said I know some players know this. But the majority of them don't. I was under the impression that the closer to the req you were the better but I haven't tested it so I'll believe ya on that, and add it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogman

Only Me/N's focusing in Illusion and Death magic can use the staff to it's full effectiveness. The point isn't the requirements, the point is the item is gimped to everyone but a Me/N.

Dogman you're missing my point . Any Necro primary could use that staff and get all the benefits. They could be a N/R, N/Mo, N/W, N/whatever. You do not have to have an ounce of mesmer into yor character to use that staff and use it effectively. You however will not do much damage if you attack with it. So, no, the item is not gimped to everyone but a Me/N. It is perfectably usable by all Necro's. That was the point I'm trying to get acrossed the req has nothing to do with anything but the amount of damage.

Rico Carridan · Dec 07, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Dogman you're missing my point . Any Necro primary could use that staff and get all the benefits. They could be a N/R, N/Mo, N/W, N/whatever. You do not have to have an ounce of mesmer into yor character to use that staff and use it effectively. You however will not do much damage if you attack with it. So, no, the item is not gimped to everyone but a Me/N. It is perfectably usable by all Necro's. That was the point I'm trying to get acrossed the req has nothing to do with anything but the amount of damage.

But you aren't getting all of the benefits with it. You are missing one of them, namely the fact that the staff does 11-22 damage when you attack with it. A lot of people fight with their wands, either when they're low on energy, or to activate certain hexes, or just to do a little bit of extra damage to someone. There is a reason beyond pure cosmetics why people might want a max damage staff or wand.

Rico

Phaern Majes · Dec 07, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I know I'm not trying to say that but the fact remains the item isn't "gimped to everyone but a Me/N". And while some players do like to attack also most of them would take a 10-20 staff just as happily if it had good mods. Most players generally don't care about damage when it comes to staffs, or so has been my experience. Again this isn't meant to do anything but explain what req. does, because alot of people throw away good items because they think the req. "gimps" the items.

Also I will point out this is mostly unique to staffs, because as stated an Earth ele is most likely just going to get a scroll. And no Warrior is going to use a shield (s)he doesn't have the req for, because the defense in that case is important. Again just explaining that it isn't always necessary, not trying to condemn anyone for wanting to meet the req.

Tetris L · Dec 08, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, it goes all the way down to starter weapon/focus stats.

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, you will get 50% of the specified damage/energy bonus.

unienaule · Dec 08, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, you will get 50% of the specified damage/energy bonus.

Definitely wrong. You need to learn to research before you say stuff. I just equipped a Rockmolder on my R/W. +3 energy ftl. Half of 12 is 6, so you're wrong.

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 08, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

Wrong. If you don't meet the requirements, you will get 50% of the specified damage/energy bonus.

I think savio and you are right, because without the 9 for the rockmolder in illusion, my mesmer was still missing the 50% of the +12 energy. Granted you still get secondary benefits, but at least from my experience, I don't get the full benefit unless I have the full req in the item <sort of a DUR moment>.

But the same arguement can be said like this: If it works the way you state it, I could have only "1 req" of the "8 req" requirement, and still get 50% bonus? Nope. Next to nothing. I put 1 req in for my axe at req 8, and it does 3-5 damage each hit, hence starter weapon stats. So on this I believe you are both half right.

--The Shim

unienaule · Dec 08, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

It's starter weapon stats. And as for weapons, the description for those skills says it increases damage dealt per skill point. So you get that bonus, but it still acts as a starter weapon.

EDIT: Just tested it myself on my mesmer. At 8 illusion, i get +3 energy, and 9 illusion, +12 from Rockmolder.

Arturo02 · Dec 08, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I have a jeweled chalice that is +12 energy, and then +9 with a 6 requirement in inspiration. At six inspiration I get +21 energy. At 0-5 I get +18energy.

it seems the energy thing is all over the place.

Tetris L · Dec 15, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Definitely wrong. You need to learn to research before you say stuff. I just equipped a Rockmolder on my R/W. +3 energy ftl. Half of 12 is 6, so you're wrong.

I did some testing and stand corrected. It is not 50% in any case.

[smartass mode]
But Savio was wrong as well! I've got a necro focus idol with energy +10. If I don't meet the requirement, energy drops to +5, which is definetly more than the starter focus item stats. Starter value would be +3.

[/smartass mode]

Savio · Dec 15, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I'm pretty sure my +12 focii drop to +3, but I'm still deprived of a computer that can run GW right now. Hopefully later today I can get it fixed and this whole mess cleared up.

Tetris L · Dec 15, 2005, 12:46 PM // 12:46

This is what the "Damage Explained" article on GWonline.net says about it on page 3:

Quote:

All items actually have 2 values for their attribute driven modifiers (weapons, staves and rods are damage, focus items are energy). There is the listed value, which only comes into effect if you meet the item???s attribute requirement. There is also a hidden value of which you cannot see. This only comes into effect when you do not meet the requirement. If an item does not have an attribute requirement, then both the listed and hidden values are identical.

In general, if you do not meet the attribute requirement of an item ...
- Weapon damage is equivalent to a level 5 weapon of the same type.
- Shield armor is reduced by approximately 25%.
- Focus items will either be +3 or +5 energy.

The hidden value is always lower than the listed value, and is equivalent to a level 5 weapon. Not all weapons are identical in this respect however, they can have different hidden damage ranges.

However items will sometimes spawn that do not agree to the above guidelines.

The last sentence kinda ruins the whole thing, but hey, at least he found the same discrepancy about energy being +3 in some cases and +5 in other.

Pharalon · Dec 15, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

It's been ages since I tested any of this stuff, but many items have hidden inherent modifiers, including focii. This means that you can get a focus with +10 en, which is actually a base of +8 with a internal modifier of +2. If you don't meet the reqs, the item will drop to starter stats, but will maintain any inherent bonuses it has. In the above case, it would drop from a +10 focus to a +5. I'm sure if you only test white/blue focii, you'll always drop to +3, but on purples/golds it can be something different (though very rarely). The same can be applied to weapons/shields as well.

Edit: lo and behold, as with everything gw related, the answer can be found in one of Ensign's articles. People need to be forced to read every one of those before they are allowed to post in here..

Ensign · Dec 15, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Collector / Green / Quest Reward / PvP items always drop to the minimum possible value when you don't meet the requirement.

For 'normal' items, the behavior is a bit weird - it's usually half the listed value if you don't meet the req, but I've heard about enough exceptions that I wouldn't take this as a hard rule. I've made some conjectures about internal item level coding before, but right now all I can say is that I really don't know how it works.

Peace,
-CxE

Dec 07, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41	#1
Phaern Majes Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anywhere but up Guild: The Panserbjorne [ROAR] Profession: R/Mo	What a req really does. Now I know that many players probably already understand this, but there are alot that do not. Let me explain by first showing you this item. Now before you say oh this item is crap, 'cause the req. contradicts the Death bonus, let me explain. The req., get this, only applies to the stat line that it is placed next to. In this case the damage, just as the 8% chance only applies to the skill recharge. All this means is that if a Death Necro were to use this item (s)he would get every bonus on here at full strength. The only thing (s)he could not do was attack for max damage because (s)he doesn't meet the req. for that stat line. Another example: In this one if an Earth elementalist wanted to use the item without putting points into fire, (s)he would still get the full 16% chance. (S)He would also get the full 38 health when hexed. However, they would not get the full energy bonus, only part of it. This is because the req. only effects the stat line it is placed next to not the whole item. EDIT: No matter how close you are to the req. you still will only get a small portion of the full amount. (Thanks Savio for correcting me) In all honesty, how many Necros/Mesmers/Elementalists/Monks are really going to try and kill level 24's just by shooting them with your staff? That is why reqs. on staves aren't that important because staves aren't meant for damage just bonuses. EDIT: This is why trappers can use staffs for the extra 10 energy, and other mod bonuses dispite not having met the requirement. Last edited by Phaern Majes; Dec 12, 2005 at 08:37 PM // 20:37..

Dec 07, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44	#10
Phaern Majes Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anywhere but up Guild: The Panserbjorne [ROAR] Profession: R/Mo	I know I'm not trying to say that but the fact remains the item isn't "gimped to everyone but a Me/N". And while some players do like to attack also most of them would take a 10-20 staff just as happily if it had good mods. Most players generally don't care about damage when it comes to staffs, or so has been my experience. Again this isn't meant to do anything but explain what req. does, because alot of people throw away good items because they think the req. "gimps" the items. Also I will point out this is mostly unique to staffs, because as stated an Earth ele is most likely just going to get a scroll. And no Warrior is going to use a shield (s)he doesn't have the req for, because the defense in that case is important. Again just explaining that it isn't always necessary, not trying to condemn anyone for wanting to meet the req. Last edited by Phaern Majes; Dec 07, 2005 at 09:46 PM // 21:46..

Dec 08, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17	#14
unienaule I dunt even get "Retired" Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	It's starter weapon stats. And as for weapons, the description for those skills says it increases damage dealt per skill point. So you get that bonus, but it still acts as a starter weapon. EDIT: Just tested it myself on my mesmer. At 8 illusion, i get +3 energy, and 9 illusion, +12 from Rockmolder. Last edited by unienaule; Dec 08, 2005 at 09:24 AM // 09:24..

Dec 15, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33	#17
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	I'm pretty sure my +12 focii drop to +3, but I'm still deprived of a computer that can run GW right now. Hopefully later today I can get it fixed and this whole mess cleared up. __________________ People are stupid.

Dec 15, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51	#20
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Collector / Green / Quest Reward / PvP items always drop to the minimum possible value when you don't meet the requirement. For 'normal' items, the behavior is a bit weird - it's usually half the listed value if you don't meet the req, but I've heard about enough exceptions that I wouldn't take this as a hard rule. I've made some conjectures about internal item level coding before, but right now all I can say is that I really don't know how it works. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Dec 07, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32	#2
Dogman Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Bringers of Misery [BoM] Profession: R/N	For the focus item, any respectable Ele would just use a Earth scroll instead. We all know you don't need illusion to get the death magic bonus, or the other bonuses, but the item is very specialized. Only Me/N's focusing in Illusion and Death magic can use the staff to it's full effectiveness. The point isn't the requirements, the point is the item is gimped to everyone but a Me/N. Granted yes, casters won't wand a enemy to kill it, but they NEED the full energy bonus, which they do not get if they do not have the requirements.

Dec 07, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27	#6
Markaedw Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: N/	The enrgy benifit depends entirely on where the skill requirement is. The staff has the skill req. on the damage, therefore the energy is bonus willl be benifitted regartgless of skill The focus item skill req. is on the energy benifit, so you will only receive the benifit as you add to your skills, you will get some of the benifits and as you add to your fire skill level you will get more, untill you reach the max.

Dec 07, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50	#7
Caros Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ireland Guild: Powerpuff Boys [PUFF] Profession: W/	Exactly, this is why trappers use staves.

Dec 08, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32	#15
Arturo02 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: See that third planet from the sun? Guild: Sacred Forge Knights Profession: R/Me	I have a jeweled chalice that is +12 energy, and then +9 with a 6 requirement in inspiration. At six inspiration I get +21 energy. At 0-5 I get +18energy. it seems the energy thing is all over the place.

Dec 15, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47	#19
Pharalon Beta Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Carebear Club	It's been ages since I tested any of this stuff, but many items have hidden inherent modifiers, including focii. This means that you can get a focus with +10 en, which is actually a base of +8 with a internal modifier of +2. If you don't meet the reqs, the item will drop to starter stats, but will maintain any inherent bonuses it has. In the above case, it would drop from a +10 focus to a +5. I'm sure if you only test white/blue focii, you'll always drop to +3, but on purples/golds it can be something different (though very rarely). The same can be applied to weapons/shields as well. Edit: lo and behold, as with everything gw related, the answer can be found in one of Ensign's articles. People need to be forced to read every one of those before they are allowed to post in here..